Why perpetual motion free energy machines don't work

It still amazes me that with all our posts dedicated to trying to help homeowners save energy, our most popular posts are on free energy scams (mainly magniwork and hojo motor).  I've gone back and forth with the energy ignorant in the comment section of these posts, but I've never written a post dedicated to explaining why these products just won't work.  This post is speaking to those who are confused about perpetual motion devices that claim to create more energy than they consume.  If you notice in the title, I state they "don't" work, not that they "won't" work.  They don't work according to the existing laws of physics.  The future is unknowable. Perpetual motion devices have been attempted for as long as man started making complicated machinery. The goal of many unfortunate inventors  has been to create a machine that will produce useful work in a closed loop system, or in a system without any external forces.  Donald Simanek maintains an excellent history at attempts to create perpetual motion devices in his Museum of Unworkable Devices. In scientific terms, perpetual motion devices are impossible under the current laws of thermodynamics.   Being humans with tiny little brains, our understanding of the universe is limited, so there is always the possibility that the laws of physics will expand and/or change over time.  But as the laws currently exist, the two that are most frequently cited regarding perpetual motion devices are the first and second law of thermodynamics.  In summary (quotes attributed to C.P. Snow):

  1. First law of thermodynamics - Conservation of energy.  Energy can be transformed from one form to another, but it can't be created or destroyed.  "You cannot win (that is, you cannot get something for nothing, because matter and energy are conserved)."
  2. Second law of thermodynamics - Entropy. Systems always flow to a state of disorder.  "You cannot break even (you cannot return to the same energy state, because there is always an increase in disorder; entropy always increases)."{C}{C}{C}{C}{C}{C}

Wikipedia classifies the different categories of perpetual motion devices as follows: "One classification of perpetual motion machines refers to the particular law of thermodynamics the machines purport to violate:

  • A perpetual motion machine of the first kind produces work without the input of energy. It thus violates the first law of thermodynamics: the law of conservation of energy.
  • A perpetual motion machine of the second kind is a machine which spontaneously converts thermal energy into mechanical work. When the thermal energy is equivalent to the work done, this does not violate the law of conservation of energy. However it does violate the more subtle second law of thermodynamics (see also entropy). The signature of a perpetual motion machine of the second kind is that there is only one heat reservoir involved, which is being spontaneously cooled without involving a transfer of heat to a cooler reservoir. This conversion of heat into useful work, without any side effect, is impossible, according to the second law of thermodynamics.

A more obscure category is a perpetual motion machine of the third kind, usually (but not always)defined as one that completely eliminates friction and other dissipative forces, to maintain motion forever (due to its mass inertia). Third in this case refers solely to the position in the above classification scheme, not the third law of thermodynamics. Although it is impossible to make such a machine, as dissipation can never be 100% eliminated in a mechanical system, it is nevertheless possible to get very close to this ideal (see examples in the Low Friction section). Such a machine would not serve as a source of energy but would have utility as a perpetual energy storage device."

In summary, here are reasons why perpetual motion energy generation devices don't work:

Conservation of Energy - Say the law of conservation of energy wasn't a law.  You create a perpetual motion device that somehow overcomes all of the external forces mentioned above and you have a device that can operate itself perpetually (similar to the perpetual motion machine of the second kind listed above).  Now, your device can operate forever, but how can you extract any work from it?  If you take energy out of your machine, you will slow it down!  And no, magnets don't "create" energy, they just create a propulsion force.  To make magnets do work you have to add energy (i.e. spin them). I'm not sure I can spend too much time on this one point, because this is ultimately at the heart of perpetual motion energy generation machines.  If someone claims they can get energy out of a system, that energy has to come from SOMEWHERE!  It can come from the sun (nuclear), wind (which is created by the sun), gravity (one way trip), coal/natural gas/oil (dead organisms initially powered by sun), nuclear, humans (powered by food which is powered by sun), etc.  ENERGY HAS TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE. There is no free lunch. Now, there is this tiny little issue of dark energy (also mentioned at the end of this post), but it is outside the scope of this discussion because I don't know too many inventors claiming their perpetual motion device operates on dark energy.

Friction and external forces - This is really an expansion of the law of conservation of energy. Friction occurs when molecules of one thing come in contact with molecules of another thing.  Rub your hands together and feel heat generated.  That heat is energy leaving your body.  Anything operating on Earth will encounter external forces. Thought exercise time!  Think about driving your car down a flat highway.  Bring your car up to speed.  Go ahead, whatever speed you want, there is no speed limit here.  Now take your foot off the accelerator.  What happens?  You car is going to slow down and eventually stop because of air resistance (or friction between the air outside and the body of your car), rolling resistance between your tires and the road (or friction between asphalt and rubber) because gravity (external force) is pulling your car towards the earth, and the internal friction between all the working parts of your car (pistons, wheel bearings, crank shaft, etc.). Ok, we're done with the cute little thought exercise.  Now imagine that car is some perpetual motion machine.  Guess what, all those external forces are still there!

Entropy - This is the hardest to explain but it is also the most obvious.  Basically, everything in the universe wants to go to a state of disorder. Buildings don't build themselves, and when they're built, they eventualy fall down.  Heat always flows from hot to cold. Everything dies.  Everything falls apart.  Maybe one day the universe will start collapsing in on itself, time will reverse itself, and this won't be the case.  But in the known lifespan of the universe (13.75 billion years) entropy has always (100% of the time) increased.   A perpetual motion machine would result in no net disorder, which has never happened in 13.75 billion years.  Not a fan of history dictating future, that's fine, how are you going to get past conservation of energy? Michio Kaku (who graduated first in his Harvard physics class, received his doctorate from Berkeley, and taught at Princeton) addresses perpetual motion machines in chapter 14 of his excellent book Physics of the Impossible.  In his book, Kaku breaks down "impossible" into three classes (summarized below):

  • Class 1 impossibility - impossible today but do not violate known laws of physics
  • Class 2 impossibility - technologies that sit at the edge of our understanding.  If possible, they may be realized thousands or millions of years in the future
  • Class 3 impossibility - technologies that violate the known laws of physics.  If possible, these technologies would represent a shift in our understanding of physics

Kaku labels perpetual motion a Class 3 impossibility (teleportation and telepathy are Class 1, time machines are a Class 2).  He states in the closing of chapter 14 on perpetual motion:

Because creating a true perpetual motion machine may require us to reevaluate the fundamental laws of physics on a cosmological scale, I would rank perpetual motion machines as a Class III impossibility; that is, either they are truly impossible, or we would need to fundamentally change our understanding of fundamental physics on a cosmological scale in order to make such a machine possible.  Dark energy remains one of the greatest unfinished chapters in modern science

Do you understand why I'm referencing this?  An expert in theoretical physics labels perpetual motion as 1 of only 2 class 3 impossibilities in all of theoretical physics (the other being precognition). Finally, I must address a claim that I see all the time regarding free energy devices.  Conspiracy theorists claim that the big bad energy companies are suppressing free energy devices because it will destroy their profits.  This is complete and utter rubbish. Let me tell you how I would get around this issue if I had stumbled on the greatest discovery in all of history:

  1. Chronicle my discovery in exhausting detail.  Paper, electronic, pictures, videos, etc.  Create hard copies and store them with trusted love ones.  Email electronic copies to email addresses I make up on multiple different hosts.  Take out multiple safety deposit boxes in many different states/countries and store identical copies of my research in each one.
  2. Create a company whose purpose is to build and sell my device or power from my device.  Make sure to find a good attorney to ensure all legal work is in proper order.  Getting a good attorney is critical.
  3. Go to investors/universities/press and demonstrate my findings.  Sell shares of my company if capital is needed.  Venture capital guys are pretty good at making money on any kind of idea, there is no need to go to the energy companies.
  4. Become the richest and most famous person in the world while alleviating many of the world's problems.

How could the big bad energy companies hurt my plan?  They couldn't.  Nobody can stop someone else who has a powerful idea.  Sure, the person who created the idea could be murdered, but if step 1 is followed properly, the idea still lives on. Would you really fear death if you had the idea to change the lives of 7 billion people?  Blaming large energy corporations is the cowards excuse for why his/her favorite perpetual motion device won't work.  Of interesting note is Andrea Rossi and his cold fusion energy generator.  Rossi seems to be following the steps above, and is in the middle of step 3.  We'll see if the device (which is not perpetual motion, but is cheap, clean energy) works or not.  Hopefully he reaches step 4. Hopefully you now understand why perpetual motions machines won't work according to the existing laws of thermodynamics.  Could the future change and could dark energy provide unlimited power?  Sure it can, but until then, machines will never operate perpetually, much less create free energy. End of story.


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ckmapawatt's picture
Great idea JooWee!
Chris I do not need a scientific based argument, as I am not advocating for or against. I am asking both sides for proof that they are right in what they state. And how many times has "current" scientific thinking been proved incorrect, and had to be modified? Some advances have been made because someone challenged the scientific thinking of the time and found it to be wrong. Your arguments against could also be perceived as deliberate scientific stubbornness.
Chris I have just gone back over all your posts on this page, and this is the FIRST time you actually state that you have not built one. You want to be credible? Don't lie and answer questions clearly, and not like a politician.
ckmapawatt's picture
Alright kiwi, you got me. I believe 100% that this is a scam, but you obviously don't, so I am willing to do this: You build the plans and chronicle your efforts (pictures please) and I will gladly post your efforts as a guest post. Think about it, you have nothing to lose. If your machine works, you become the most famous person in the world!
I was looking for coments on HoJO thank you I my self have little education at 65yrs I still belive a moter can propell a genorator witch in turn will produce AC or DC to keep the moter runing the genorater .The first car I owend had a Gen. they changed over to altternaters because the Gen. produced to much juice and would burn out your battery over time ,it didn't take much power to turn that Gen.Iwas toled by many that your moter can never run fast enuff to make a Gen. produce enuff Elc. to keep your Elc. moter runing I never prasude it 7th grade ED. I still belive it can be done with the right gears like in a transmishion little power more speed . thanks for the info on hojo .
Journals of Perpetual Motion Machine, see in: Journal of theoretical analysis of the perpetual motion machines Cordially, Ramiro Augusto Salazar La Rotta, Ph.D. Bucaramanga, Colombia
As i said to ericsongs in an earlier post, I fully support the idea of challenging established scientific principals. In fact, history will tell us that it is through such challenging of the status quo that breakthroughs are achieved. However it remains true that the burden of proof is on the challenger, especially when the challenger is asking for your $$$, and not the other way round. This is even more true now when the scientific method is much better established than say, a few hundred years ago when science was more a of mixture of superstition and religious doctrine than anything else. Let's imagine a hypothetical scenario. Let's say Mr X claims that he has invented a device that allows you to levitate and travel at great speed without any external power source. He claims that you can build this device yourself with a broom and a pointy hat and some commons household items. He also throws in some scientific sounding catchphrases about gravitational flux and bending of planetary ley lines. He claims that the evil energy moguls have been trying to suppress his discovery for fear that it would upend their monopoly on the transport sector. He then says he wants to share this technology with all of you so you no longer have to rely on the evil energy moguls... all you have to do is pay him $19.99 and he will send you a set of secret plans and assembly instructions that will have you flying on a broomstick in no time (provided you follow his instructions correctly). Now my learned friend Chris calls Mr X's bluff and says this whole flying broomstick thing is a scam. Chris forms the basis of his arguments from our CURRENT best understanding of the principals of flight, aerodynamic lift and magnetic levitation which have been very well established and documented. Then comes along Mr Y who says to Chris, "i don't need a scientific based argument... have you actually tried to build this flying broomstick? If you haven't, you have not proven that it cannot work, you have zero credibility. Your arguments against this flying broomstick could also be perceived as deliberate scientific stubbornness. Quit lying and talking like a politician." I say to Mr Y, why do you so cavalierly dismiss the "scientific based argument" when that has been offered as the very proof that you seek in the first place? Could it be that it would be far easier and more convenient to shift the burden of proof onto Chris, than to actually try to understand these scientific principles?
ckmapawatt's picture
So you put the burden of proof on those who believe in sound scientific principles, not on the "company" that has put up a ridiculous website with outrageous claims? You WANT people to BUY these plans to prove that they're INSANE? I'm beginning to question your involvement in this scam. I understand your position, but think it's outrageous in this case. The burden of proof is on the person trying to change the laws of physics, not the other way around. I'm finished with this discussion.
Hi Eugene, I respect your belief that it can be done. Since you have admitted that you have never pursued it further, it seems to me your belief is based only on faith. Instead of trying to explain why your beliefs are devoid of any scientific basis, I would like to ask you to take another leap of faith and believe instead those of us who have dedicated our lives to the study and practice in the field of engineering. Of course, since I am sitting safely behind my computer screen probably 10,000 km away from you, it would also be a leap of faith for you to believe that I have any scientific or engineering credentials at all...! :) In the end if it all about beliefs, there is really not much basis for any discussion when the subject matter is something so technical. My parting message to you is please don't give your hard earned money to someone else based on beliefs. HoJo motor is a scam. Believe me. :)
Howard Johnson Magnet Motor Display Why would this dude lie?


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